Author	Topic:   for gene
Tabby676	posted 10/6/02 4:28 PM       The Tolken/druidic connection is not nearly as strong as the Tolken misc. ancient British/Irish throw back of general superstition and fairy tale links in his works. Wizards were mostly (by that name) are an ancient British thing, and the Fae (faeries as immortals who are thin tall and far better at warring than humans let alone due to their age far more knowledgeable or wise) are a mainly Irish train of thought, (the root of this myth was due to previous settling in Ireland by Anglo-Saxons who were more technologically advanced then the Irish people in general at the time). The list goes on and on from here, magic items imbued with a power that they give to their wearer or carrier, slaying dragons, etc. As I stated previously stated however no 2 wiccans will ever truly agree on what wicca is so I would assume that some wiccans would say that the middle earth series is close to a religious doctrine while others would laugh at the thought. Yes I have been to funerals and, though I do understand the purpose of the ritual of viewing a loved ones body in a public place it having been mutilated to give it the closest appearance to life as possible, I find the whole thing disturbing and rather barbaric and generally creepy. My fiancé’s father died when he was 22 years old, (6 years ago), he had had a massive heart attack and had basically crushed his head on the bath room sink; so I am sure you can imagine the body was not in good condition; his surviving family members showed anger and outrage to the fact that he refused to, “kiss his father good bye”, at the viewing. I know that I am mortal; I hope that I never have a funeral though... Another religion you may be interested in though information in English is still rather scarce is Japanese shintoism though this comes far closer to just general spirituality than a religion the thing that has always fascinated me about this religion is how close it comes to describing the bas concept of e=mc2 in a basic ancient manner of description. Those who believe in shintoism believe that everything from a rock to you to a chair a blade of grass etc has a living spirit and that these spirits are all linked and that they are somehow aware of one another especially when in close proximity and that the spirits are old and wise and cannot die… Unfortunately all of the rituals of shinto mostly revolve around hand washing, which I can understand with such a large population on such a small island, it just holds little meaning to me personally. The creation myth is interesting as well, historically speaking, it goes something like this, in the beginning there was the heavens and the earth (paraphrasing) and the goddess had a chosen people, to make a special place for these chosen people she dipped her sword into the water and where it toughed were created the sacred islands of Nippon, and told the people that they must stay on this island and they would be forever in her favor. The reason I say this is interesting, is that the Japanese as we know them today are not the original inhabitants of Japan but rather of Chinese descent, splitters if you will, but this does sound to me at least like what it would have appeared as from far off of China’s shores, (too far off to see from the shore), when the ring of fire made Japan to begin with, (lightening is often associated with volcanoes). Anyway I am needlessly verbose and will give it a rest for a moment…
Gene	posted 10/6/02 5:06 PM     You're not needlessly verbose, Tabby. I, on the other hand, have been on a jabber jag for several days and can't seem to slow down. But gawd, you always answer my questions with great intellegence. I'm learning good stuff from you and appreciate the experience. (More than I can say about the brave matthew; I think I'll choose not to capitalize his name. Thanks for not getting turned-on by animal torture, then blaming me, the way matthew does.) I agree there is a very morbid twist to many funerals. Most of my family is rural Southern and have a tradition of taking photos of corpses dressed out in funeral finery to send to relatives who couldn't attend, or for their own scrapbooks. As I was growing up, I never knew what I might find in letters from berieved relatives. My own family album has a photo of my two-year-old brother's funeral clearly showing tire tracks across his face. I've attended backwoods hillbilly funerals that would make Faulkner wince. If you think most embalming is bad, check out a dead hillbilly on an August day in an un-airconditioned country church with no window screens, while a fire and brimstone preacher hollers for hours till everyone is crying. But these are exceptions. To be perfectly honest, I like funerals. But not in a morbid way. I consider funerals one of society's most important rituals. Good funerals honor the life of the deceased, give loved ones community support and the opportunity to join together, and demonstrate, firsthand, that there isn't much to a body if the spirit is gone. I always worried about seeing my father's body, but was elated by the experience; it was obvious that the body in the box had nothing to do with him. All that mattered was his spirit.
Tabby676	posted 10/6/02 8:03 PM       I am an encyclopedia of useless information Gene by all means please use me, as you will. J In terms of me not being like most pledges of peta2 I attribute this purely to my age though I am not that old at 25 I realized several years ago that standing on a soap box and yelling at people while they yell back is no way to have a long lasting effect on the state of society, or at least not an effect that I would truly want to have. I would actually, (if forced to label myself and conscribe to the concept set forth by someone else’s web site which is terribly limiting in and of itself), be more like those who write for vegan.com though I prefer to be the author of my own treatise, which is ever-changing and malleable. Honestly though I understand why the people at peta2 are the way they are just as I understand the people on this board, and even petasucks.cc and judge none, each person must eventually define how they are going to be personally and this often if not always involves a lack of understanding of why everyone else around them does not see the same things the same way, many people never advance beyond this point and that makes me sad, because while I do understand why this happens, to plateau there is to miss out on truly learning anything beyond your own sphere of influence and that seems to me not unlike death itself. The behavior that go along with this manner of thinking scuttle any opportunity to find common ground there by knowing your neighbor and possibly leading by example or at least just getting to know another individual that could be a a great friend or ally. Anyway that is my thought for the day, or at least for this moment of the day.
Gene	posted 10/7/02 0:37 AM     Sorry for the long post. The absence of paragraph breaks and my tall, skinny malfunction makes it appear worse than it is, much like a funhouse mirror. Slashes separate paragraphs://///////// It's refreshing to encounter a PeTA advocate with your intelligence and good, common sense, Tabby. I've been at this for a while and have corresponded with only one other PeTA supporter who has impressed me: a middle-aged woman from southwestern Ohio who posted as Hopalong on another forum. Her intelligence, charm, and openness captivated everyone who debated her, and she reminded us that not everyone on the PeTA lines are brainwashed zombies. I'm well aware that PeTA2 represents mostly teenagers and, frankly, I maintain more compassion towards them than for the rank-and-file PeTA lieutenants I usually butt against. I also realize that it's normal for teenagers to talk trash and be nasty about everything in their lives.///////////////// I never thought much about PeTA until the past year, when I began meeting many PeTA activists on Internet debate boards. My shock from hearing their points-of-view, or shall I say, point-of-view, prompted me to begin exploring their websites and printed literature. Until then, like most liberal Americans, I had assumed PeTA was basically a well-intentioned group of people devoted to animal welfare. But the more I found out about PeTA, the more I became alarmed. My past several weeks browsing the PeTA2 site has deepened my despair about their influence on young people, who have so little firsthand experience with the subjects they feel so strongly about./////////////// I've grown to consider PeTA a cult. Familiarity with a group of people usually leads to a growing understanding and respect, but between me and PeTA, it's been the extreme opposite. This hasn't happened to me often. I spent the 70s and 80s living in Harvard Square, Cambridge, the Haight Ashbury of the East. The early 70s were wild times: sex, drugs, and rock & roll with apparently no price to pay for overindulgence. It was an Austin Powers world, baby! By the early 70s, many people felt unfulfilled by radical politics and began searching for new philosophies and pursuits. Cambridge/Boston was a delicatessen of alternative groups merging into a New Age groundswell; you could dip your spoon in any direction and bring back something interesting or trippy. It was a cornucopia! Many of my friends were joining meditation groups and religious ashrams. Every form of Buddhism had become popular, especially Tantric; Hare Krishnas, of course, were everywhere, beating drums and always in your face, hands out, but joyous (their founder was still alive, but everything changed with his death); Scientology was getting a toehold, much later, EST hit the scene; nutritional philosophies like Macrobiotics were becoming poular, while others lived on vitamins only, and others Fruitarians; Satanists and Witchcraft groups; plus countless others. On and on. Anyway, I had a front row seat to much of the party. I never joined any group, which is my nature, but attended many introductory lectures and more. To make a long story a bit shorter, I found most of these groups pretty benign; but I'll never forget attending meetings of a few groups that scared the holy crap out of me, and PeTA makes me feel the same way.////////////////// I haven't eaten red meat in 32 years, but it never occurred to me to hate the rest of the world for not making an identical decision at the exact same time as me. Plus, I grew up on a farm and know agricultural people aren't the bloodthirsty beasts PeTA dictates everyone must believe. I've been living in Santa Fe for the past dozen years and now know many ranch and rodeo families. Being a magazine and book photographer has provided me the opportunity to go anywhere I want, and I've been so inspired by the real cowboy's amazing partnership with animals and connection to the land that I've been documenting their world for several years. For anyone to claim that these people torture animals is outrageous beyond belief! PeTA's savage lies about my good friends have mobilized me to challenge PeTA propoganda at every opportunity. I believe PeTA is a cult exploiting mainstream America's alienation from agricultural reality. I have found PeTA's slander beyond all common decency and don't believe they are an animal welfare charity by any stretch of the imagination. I think their motivations are self-righteousness and money. How can I respect a group that only preaches disrespect and censors all debate within their ranks, then hides behind a free speech defense when challenged by their victims? Mostly, why do they teach their followers to hate all who disgree with their radical philosophy? Why do they turn children against their own family and community? It appears that PeTA's strategy is convincing followers that the world is pure poison and only they have the antidote, that only PeTA is a safe haven in a nightmare world of bloody cruelty. I almost never use the word evil, but I've become convinced, after a very long road, that PeTA is evil. I know many vegans who agree. PeTA has no vision - only blackness. Comic Red Skelton said that TV pl
Gene	posted 10/7/02 0:45 AM     Crap! Dang this machine!///// Comic Red Skelton said that TV plays violent shows to scare people from leaving their homes, so they watch more TV. I think PeTA must be Red Skelton fans.
Tabby676	posted 10/7/02 2:18 AM       Hey Gene this is completely off topic, but I am flippant about topics when not asked a direct question, guess that is part of the MTV upbringing. I would like to invite you as a photographer, (if you are ever in Atlanta), to come and see part of my world, though like you I am not directly affiliated with any group I am very active in the fetish community and in fact as a second job I am a performer in a fetish club. It is an incredibly liberal and intellectual environment and not the swinger freak party many would have it be, but it is also visually fascinating, just the clothing alone, I would think anyway, would make it quite the smorgasbord for capture on film. If you ever are in town and would like to come see the visual spectrum that is the fetish underground let me know, my email addy is suriyel676@mindspring.com

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