|
| Author | Topic: JLA/Avengers #3 Quarry |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 10/25/03 5:02 PM
Does anyone know the roster of both the Avengers and the Justice League [and what issues I can find the roster in,]In the preview of JLA/A#3 shown in Marvel Previews #1? My main problem is Hellcat, Mantis and Black Panther in the same roster. No Roster included all three in an Avenegrs comic. And John Stuart-Green Lantern and the Juustice league (i'm not as keen with the Justice league as I am with the Avengers). So can anyone help me? |
| Eric Sellers |
posted 10/26/03 2:53 AM
Check out the front page for JLA/AVENGERS coverage.(box on the right). There are list to both teams and a Transcript from a panel which George talks about time-lines and characters. There are spoilers in there so beware.. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 10/26/03 2:36 PM
Where? |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 10/26/03 3:04 PM
never mind. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 10/26/03 7:49 PM
My question remains unanswered. are there any specific, quotable parts I should look for? I could'nt find much related to Marvel Preview #1. |
| vu |
posted 10/26/03 9:37 PM
Please see answer, regarding Living Lightning, maybe that will help. I didn't quite understand what you were asking. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 10/30/03 3:08 AM
Okay, here are the JLAers and avenegrs I spotted in the JLA/A preview: Avengers: captain America Iron Man Scarlet Witch Beast Hellcat Black panther Vision (his foot) Mantis (Suspended Animation) JLAers: Superman Batman Green Lantern (John Steward version) Hawkman Flash (looks like Barry Allen) Black Canary Green Arrow Zatanna (Suspended Animation) Villains: The Grim Reaper The Key/Living Laser/Hugh Jones The Serpent Crown My problem is Hellcat (who joined in A#144 and left in #151), Black Panther (Who joined in #52 and helped many times since but never when Hellcat was around.),Beast (Joined in #137 and was around with Hellcat and Black Panther but never Mantis) and Mantis (was a member when Panther was around but again never Hellcat)who never seemed to all be in the same roster. Ditto with Zatanna's costume (Joined in Justice league #161), John Stewert GL (Joined in JLA #76), Batman's presence and Black canary's Costume. All existed during different periods in Justice League history (except for BC's costume)JLA history. So, that's my peeve. Does that clear anything? |
| vu |
posted 10/30/03 4:47 AM
I thought it was fairly obvious from the preview that the JLA and the Avengers goes on a little "Time Warp" in the third issue. Since, at the end of #2, The Grandmaster, having all twelve artifacts of power warped time and space (and I am assuming) sending the two teams away, either in some sort of timewarp or like an Phantom Zone-type of thing. An educated guess, would also be that the JLA and Avengers have met before in the unpublished 1982 version, but as revealed in a "flash back" -- which is why George Perez drew the art emmulating in the "classic" 1980's look. I might be wrong, of course. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 10/30/03 10:21 PM
Anyone know when Hellwas was pulled from her "Schooling" with moondragon? Because I know there's such a thing as bringing in reserve and inactive members but to depict the timeline when this might have happened I need to know: When Hellwas was pulled from her "Schooling" with moondragon. When Mantis joined and dropped out of the Avengers. When Batman joined, quit and rejoined. If there were any other African Ameerican Green Lanterns. What issues Zatanna had that costume. and when BP ever got those neat lines on his gloves. |
| MarkoRoman |
posted 10/31/03 6:12 AM
Zatanna had that Silver suit in JLA #161-186, and in #187 - the end of the 1st Series, Zatanna stayed as a regular Member sporting the Perez design Sorceress look (which is the best costume she's ever had). Batman joined JLA in #10 (as a regular member), was seen last in issue #218 (and was not seen until he) officially re-joined in issue #250 until the 1st Series ended. He was part of the 2nd Incanrantion of the Giffen/DeMatteus/Maguire JL & was a regular member for about 7 years and later stayed on as a Reservist until the end of that series. The 3rd JLA Series (by Grant Morrison) Batman was once again a Permanent Member. Batman was kicked out (fired) in issue #46 and rejoined in #50. Now, I'm a DC Guy, so I couln't tell you much about Marvel. Sorry |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 11/1/03 2:22 PM
I'm hoping this is no flashback. I am in LOVE with that scene and I'm hoping it won't be used in that sort of way. I'm thinking for the Black Panther, they could have easily called him in for backup when they needed him as they've done so in the past. I've also come to the conclusion that Mantis did not have to be a current member and she could have just summoned the Avengers stated she was in in need of help. What the Key would want with Mantis is a mystery to me. then incomes a practical timeline soulution: It's obvious it has something to do with Mantis being the Celestial Madonna. Which means that it could have taken place after the Celestial madonna saga (which took place in avengers #129-135, and Giant size #2, #3, and #4)on the Avengers side. As for Zatanna, looking back at the 1st Key-master's past I'd say [in the issues I've seen him in] he's always had some strange intrest in Zatanna. The flexability with villains is unlimited. Death is the ultimate line. Otherwise it's almost impossible to depict when they pop up and when they do it, unless they've been handicapped by the heroes. Which is exactly what happened to the Key as he was reduced to the status of a midget(in JLA #150 I believe).But since there is no actual indication of his handicap on that panel,nothing can determine when he last fought the JLA.I'm not as keen with DC Comics as I am with Marvel so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. The Grim reaper [to my knowledge] never had much intrest in Mantis as he's had an obsession with his brother, Simon/Wonder man. Hmmm..Zatanna's the daughter of one of the best sorcerers in the business, Mantis is the CM, The Grim Reaper has a certain element of power, The Keymaster is a brilliantly power-hungry madman, and The Serpent crown is one of the most powerful items in the Marvel universe that was somewhat not included in the Metron's lineup of powerful items. Obviously, the Grim Reaper and the Key are trying to unlock some great power that lies within some unbreakable force. Wonder Woman, Atom, and Elongated Man are apparanatly absent but I guess it'd be pretty hard to cram all of those heroes into one panel and so I won't be picky. What i said for Mantis is Ditto for Zatanna. I guess she sort of was a friend of thiers before she joined so I guess she probably made some Desperate cry for help. I'm thinking that the roster of JLA that appears in The Marvel Previews #16 is one of the most average rosters in the original series. A near to perfect roster closest to the preview is Justice League of America #168 or [if you still want Zatanna involved]Justice League #161 (which brings in every one of them except the African American Green Lantern, who I am still hunting down)However I also have a theory that it takes place around or after Justice League #130. For the Avengers continuity, I've ruled out the possibility of Hellcat coming back after being trained by Moondragon and thought out that it probably took place around Avengers #145 & 146 (Considering Wasp and Thor's absence in the Preview). Right before that crazy little hunt the Avengers had for the serpent crown which falls in perfectly with the preview. So that's it! I've Done it! I'VE DONE IT! I've cracked the Continuity Case of JLA/AVENGERS #3 PREVIEW FROM MARVEL PREVIEW #16! All that's left to be solved is the African American GL! AND THEN I'LL have done IT! But the mildy amusing thing is I may have just spent all my time trying to interperate the continuity of one single panel! What a disapointment it might be if I found out the uinthinkabel! But man, that was fun! Sincerely, Rios'! |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 11/1/03 2:23 PM
I'm hoping this is no flashback. I am in LOVE with that scene and I'm hoping it won't be used in that sort of way. I'm thinking for the Black Panther, they could have easily called him in for backup when they needed him as they've done so in the past. I've also come to the conclusion that Mantis did not have to be a current member and she could have just summoned the Avengers stated she was in in need of help. What the Key would want with Mantis is a mystery to me. then incomes a practical timeline soulution: It's obvious it has something to do with Mantis being the Celestial Madonna. Which means that it could have taken place after the Celestial madonna saga (which took place in avengers #129-135, and Giant size #2, #3, and #4)on the Avengers side. As for Zatanna, looking back at the 1st Key-master's past I'd say [in the issues I've seen him in] he's always had some strange intrest in Zatanna. The flexability with villains is unlimited. Death is the ultimate line. Otherwise it's almost impossible to depict when they pop up and when they do it, unless they've been handicapped by the heroes. Which is exactly what happened to the Key as he was reduced to the status of a midget(in JLA #150 I believe).But since there is no actual indication of his handicap on that panel,nothing can determine when he last fought the JLA.I'm not as keen with DC Comics as I am with Marvel so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. The Grim reaper [to my knowledge] never had much intrest in Mantis as he's had an obsession with his brother, Simon/Wonder man. Hmmm..Zatanna's the daughter of one of the best sorcerers in the business, Mantis is the CM, The Grim Reaper has a certain element of power, The Keymaster is a brilliantly power-hungry madman, and The Serpent crown is one of the most powerful items in the Marvel universe that was somewhat not included in the Metron's lineup of powerful items. Obviously, the Grim Reaper and the Key are trying to unlock some great power that lies within some unbreakable force. Wonder Woman, Atom, and Elongated Man are apparanatly absent but I guess it'd be pretty hard to cram all of those heroes into one panel and so I won't be picky. What i said for Mantis is Ditto for Zatanna. I guess she sort of was a friend of thiers before she joined so I guess she probably made some Desperate cry for help. I'm thinking that the roster of JLA that appears in The Marvel Previews #16 is one of the most average rosters in the original series. A near to perfect roster closest to the preview is Justice League of America #168 or [if you still want Zatanna involved]Justice League #161 (which brings in every one of them except the African American Green Lantern, who I am still hunting down)However I also have a theory that it takes place around or after Justice League #130. For the Avengers continuity, I've ruled out the possibility of Hellcat coming back after being trained by Moondragon and thought out that it probably took place around Avengers #145 & 146 (Considering Wasp and Thor's absence in the Preview). Right before that crazy little hunt the Avengers had for the serpent crown which falls in perfectly with the preview. So that's it! I've Done it! I'VE DONE IT! I've cracked the Continuity Case of JLA/AVENGERS #3 PREVIEW FROM MARVEL PREVIEW #16! All that's left to be solved is the African American GL! AND THEN I'LL have done IT! But the mildy amusing thing is I may have just spent all my time trying to interperate the continuity of one single panel! What a disapointment it might be if I found out the uinthinkabel! But man, that was fun! Sincerely, Rios'! |
| Todd Nelson |
posted 11/4/03 9:30 AM
O.K. we know there's going to be lots of interation(party/BBQ) between the teams, we knows lots of villains are going to show up, we know the timelines starts playing up ala the pictures shown in Marvel Previews as spoken about above, we know Captain America and Rick Jones walk past a picture(the one George Perez did for ACTOR as a take off to the first JLA/JSA meeting) with Cap saying "I don't recall that ever happening"? Besides this I don't know much except Kurt Busiek has said that this issue was the hardest to script of the entire series. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 11/4/03 4:27 PM
I've looked over John Stuart GL'S past and only found he helped out in only 2 JLA issues: JLA (1st Series) #110 (1960) JLA Annual #1 (It looked like they were against doctor Destiny.) Heres my theory of when these lineups took place: Avengers : Around or between Avengers #144 and #147. Justice League: JLA #128-130 (JS GL would have helped 18 issues ago so its reasonble to assume he came back to help.) Its also questionable what Grim Reaper would want with the serpent crown. I'm still trying to solve the Black Panther part though. Any speculations? Suggestions? Questions? Answers? |
| vu |
posted 11/5/03 1:19 AM
John Stewart became a full member in JLA #77 (Mar 03), so ... he's appeared in JLA #77 to #85 (so far published). Incidentally, for some reason, I thought John Stewart gave up his GL status when he failed to save a planet in COSMIC ODYSSEY #4 ? I love the artwork by Mike Mignola in the series. |
| Augustus Rios |
posted 11/9/03 1:58 AM
I've changed my hypothosies from it taking place around JLA #28 to taking place around JLA #27 (this would explain WW's absence. Annual-wise, this would have (very sensibley) taking place around Avengers annual #6 with the living Laser and the SERPENT CROWN! This took place in 1976. A perfect setup! As for John Stuart, it could be some other black hero. Maybe even a Marvel character taking possesion of the ring (although highly unlikely.) Black Panther had just had his "Jungle Action" series cancelled and at that particular time was starring in the Daredevil Annual #4. Since he was quite unactive at that time I guess he could have had the time to help the Avengers out since he wasn't too busy. It's interesting to note that the ones I'm having trouble dealing with Are both African/African American. This Marvel Preview on #3 has literally turned into my ambition to solve and find it's continuity. I've been taking notes on costumes, expressions, positions, members, I've even been doing roster checks. I keep having to come back to the Marvel Chronology project website for more info! Be back with more notes, two cents and speculations! |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 11/13/03 9:54 PM
Just ordered: Avenegrs #145 Avengers #146 Avengers Annual #6 Justice League of America # 110 Justice League of America #127 Justice League of America # 130 So I may finally get some answers. Some of you may be wondering why I may be making such a fuss over one panel. The Answer is the same reason why Edison was so obsessed with creating the light bulb. He wanted to be the first one there before anybody else. Just in case anybody's wondering. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 11/13/03 9:54 PM
Just ordered: Avenegrs #145 Avengers #146 Avengers Annual #6 Justice League of America # 110 Justice League of America #127 Justice League of America # 130 So I may finally get some answers. Some of you may be wondering why I may be making such a fuss over one panel. The Answer is the same reason why Edison was so obsessed with creating the light bulb. He wanted to be the first one there before anybody else. Just in case anybody's wondering. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 11/27/03 0:45 AM
FINAL CONFIRMATION ON JLA/AVENGERS 1970'S VERSION ROSTER AND CONTINUITY: This picture takes place [on the Avengers' side] Avengers #147-148. This picture [on the Justice League's side] takes place between Justice League (1st series) #130-131. Now that thats cleared up, I've realized how fun it is and have decided to solve the continuity of the other two flashbacks seen in issue 2 (for those of you who have not read JLA/Avengers #3 yet because it was postponed, ignore this thread.) I'll start off with the first one, with Amazo and Ultron-4. But to do so, I'll need the following information: What issues Green Arrow did not have that beard. & What issues Batman did not have the yellow part of his insigna on his chest. And I was right! The key and Grim Reaper WERE trying to unlock some mysterious Celestial force! |
| Buddydave |
posted 11/27/03 2:43 AM
Edison would be proud. |
| MarkoRoman |
posted 11/28/03 5:36 AM
Actually, the 70's flashback would have to of taken place after JUSTICE LEAGUE #160, because Zatanna joins in #161 WITH that costume, but before #179, since Firestorm joins in that issue and he was not seen in the flashback in JLA/A #3. <<<< Huge JLA Fan |
| Strannik |
posted 12/1/03 7:01 AM
Batman had a yellow oval around the bat insignia since when he joined the Justice League for the first time. Go figure. Green Arrow got his beard during very late 60's-early 70's |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 12/2/03 0:29 AM
I emailed Kurt Busiek looking for answers about this picture and got some disappointing results: Dear Kurt, >were you TRYING to be inaccurate with that flashback in JLA/A #3 [with the Key, Grim Reaper, Serpent Crown, Zatanna, and Mantis]?> Keep in mind -- it's a different reality. In the actual history of both teams, there ARE no JLA/AVENGERS annual team-ups. here are your problems: >The Green lantern is replaces with the John Stewart Green Lantern. What's up with that? He only helped out with the JLA in The Justice league of America #110 (There were other times but only once to match the continuity.) This is a different reality. This story never happened in actual JLA continuity, and in this reality, John helped out in this story. >I've come to the conclusion that this flashback took place [on the Avengers' side] around Avengers #144-149. On the Justice League's side, around Justice League of America #125-130. But then, theres a problem. Where'd >the Black Panther suddenly come from huh? He wasn't involved in the Avengers' hunt for the Serpent Crown. What's up with that? It's a different reality. In this version, he was involved. >I also noticed a few mistakes in the first Flashback. In the picture, we see the Scarlett Witch/ Wanda Maximoff and her brother Pietro/Quicksilver in thier original costumes. However, by the time Ultron-4/ Ultron-5 reared his ugly face in The Avengers #54. The Scarlett Witch stopped wearing her costume in Avengers #35.> Aside from being a different reality, the Ultron in #54 was Ultron-5. This is Ultron-4. Amazo, though, is wearing an outfit he didn't adopt until Len Wein was writing JLA... > And, I think it does'nt seem right for two robots/Androids to ally themselves with each-other. It should have been Loki, not Ultron. > Sorry, but that's how it worked out. >Can you please answer my questions. There must be SOMETHING behind all of these mistakes. IS THERE?> Yes. It's a different reality, and is not actually meant to fit the actual timeline of the JLA's or Avengers' history. Hope that helps. kdb Any Speculations? |
| MarkoRoman |
posted 12/2/03 7:53 AM
Correction: The 70's Flashback took place after Justice League #179, since Firestorm was seen during that FIRST Get-Together. |
| Buddydave |
posted 12/3/03 5:58 AM
I'm amazed you actually expected a serious, detailed response from Kurt. Not even comic book writers take continuity THAT seriously... |
| MarkoRoman |
posted 12/4/03 6:53 AM
The mistake I did notice (I'm not sure if anyone else did) was when the Reuninion between the 2 Teams that would have taken place around 1989-1990, featured the JLI (from the Giffen/MaGuire years), and had Vibe in the background........Vibe died in 1987, before the Original 1st Series ended. Just a note, but none-the-less, the book is AWESOME! It's almost impossible to be exact in detail to who was in what team, what time-frame, which reincarnation, etc. I seriously don't think any other Team would have been as precise as Busiek/Perez, especially when dealing with both DC & Marvel. Great Job Guys! I can't wait for #4 AND the Collected Edition (hopefully in HC). |
| David Burcham |
posted 12/4/03 2:18 PM
It clearly states later on the book that not only were the two universes merging with each other, but that TIME was being messed up as well. That explains why all the various heroes from different time periods were cavorting around with each other. that was the the whole idea of the the first part of the book. Time and space were so off-whack that only Superman and Captain America were able to tell something was wrong. It isn't a continuity thing, it's a "let's see these heroes in interactions that would never be possible if we followed strict continuity...because it's FUN" thing. Not busting on anybody, but it explains later in the book. |
| MarkoRoman |
posted 12/6/03 7:15 AM
True to an extent.......YET the Teams were from their respected eras, as seen in their costumes, their headquarters & their appearances. Vibe was a mistake (to appear in the post-Crisis version of the JLA), since the other Heroes (at least in the JLA) were around, and alive for that particular & respected time & era. |
| vu |
posted 12/6/03 8:53 AM
I think David is right, these team members are from different time period, different eras (like what if Vibe joined them earlier). It doesn't have to make sense why they are there, but it is cool to see them. |
| Augustus Rios' |
posted 12/7/03 0:27 AM
uh, just a thought. It looks like, from the Avengers 1980's appearence it could have been near Avengers #300. |
| MarkoRoman |
posted 12/8/03 7:49 AM
Well, it was consistent, otherwise. Just a note, since Busiek & Perez had it so well defined until that "Vibe" moment. |
|
|