Author	Topic:   Is fat acceptance right?
Rachel T	posted 11/27/07 1:38 PM     Before you all bite my head off, can I start by saying that I used to be a size 24 myself. But as a former big girl, I have to ask the question, is the whole BBW/BHM movement right to praise obesity? Only the most blinkered person would deny that being seriously overweight puts you at increased risk of serious health problems not to mention the emotional ones. Whilst I'm not advocating that we should all be a size 10, there is vast difference between being a curvy 16 and a seriously obese size 24 for example. Surely we should be supporting each other to achieve a healthy weight through sensible eating and exercise rather than celebrating the fact that we're eating ourselves into an early grave. After being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and having to have knee surgery at the age of 40 due to being overweight nealry all my adult life, I finally woke up and realised that if I wanted to have a long, healthy and happy life, I had to stop kidding myself that fat is good and start being realistic. It's a shame that more BBW's/BHM's can't do the same rather than hiding behind the 'fat is good' banner or proclaiming that they can't lose weight for medicla reasons - the fact is that only a tiny percentage of people have a genuine medical condition that prevents them from losing weight. Now I know from personal experience that losing weight is very hard but believe me it's worth it!
Ianardo	posted 11/29/07 5:04 PM       Hi Rachel. Sorry to hear of your medical issues. Within size-acceptance/ fat-acceptance, it's important to realise that different large people have very widely varying physiques. Relating size to health is a hugely complex subject. I've known ladies who were much larger than size 24 and were into keep fit, and sports. While others half their weight did have health issues. Fat acceptance isn't about total opposition to weight loss. It *is* partly about making sure that large people are not mis-led by the weight-loss industry - an industry that thrives on its long-term failure to succeed in reducing weights. What matters is assessing the health of the individual without making any assumptions about what size is acceptable. Sadly, the weight-loss industry has a lot of media power, so it's hard to publicise the wider picture. There is a wealth of anecdotal evidence available online. I've been following these issues for several years and through many thousands of discussions by thousands of large people. The experiences reported are far more diverse than you might expect. There are an awful lot of large people who have tried everything conceivable to lose weight and failed (WLS included). It's unfair to suggest that only a tiny minority really can't achieve it. I've personally known several who have gone through this scenario. Part of the fat-acceptance movement involves helping in health issues. In fact the movement is all about improving lives generally. Some ladies end up losing weight *after* exposure to this movement, because for some, depression was an indirect cause of weight-gain. Ultimately, what anyone wants to do with their bodies is their business. Fat-acceptance provides more information so that people can make better informed decisions on their lives. This movement has been helping people in a huge variety of ways for many years. Please be sure to research what it is really about before questioning its existence. Take care, ianardo
Kirstie	posted 11/29/07 9:18 PM     Hi Rachel, As a size 24-26, at 31 I've been on almost every side of the size acceptance debate. I've been bulimic, and spent most of my teenage years thinking I was ugly and disgusting, and I've been pretty militant about being pro-fat, even running my own size acceptance website and community at one point. Now though, I'm much more balanced, and while I tend to think that being hugely overweight can't be good for you (and by that, I mean the point where you're more or less housebound), I believe that being overweight is really not as bad for you as it's made out to be by the press and the diet industry. I myself am diabetic, and I also have PCOS. If I go by the published weight charts, I'm technically at least four stone overweight - yet my GP and my diabetes specialist nurse are both far more concerned with lowering my blood sugar and my blood pressure than my weight, and have both told me that, in as many words. I'm not saying that there aren't people who would be healthier if they lost weight, or that we should promote being overweight as something to strive for. But size acceptance/fat acceptance is about just that - acceptance. Just because I'm fat doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to the same standards of medical treatment, employment rights, and general inclusion and respect in life, and that should be the same for anyone, whether they weigh 7st or 40 stone. I also agree with Ian that your statement about the tiny minority of people who have a medical condition meaning they can't lose weight is a big underestimation. I personally know several people who, as a result of conditions such as fibromyalgia, diabetes, and PCOS, have such compromised endocrine systems that they really *can't* lose weight, regardless of what they eat or how much they exercise. Medication plays a huge part as well, as I know only too well, having gained over a stone in less than a year, since a med change. And remember that not everyone who appears to be fit and healthy is - some diseases are invisible, and so someone who looks as though they are 'just fat' may well have been skinny a year before, only to become ill or have to choose between staying thin and being unhealthy, or treating a medical condition with drugs that have the side effect of weight gain. Ian's right about the positive effects of accepting one's weight on self-esteem as well. Just my 2p worth! Kirstie
Rachel T	posted 11/30/07 10:53 AM     I think both the above replies make valid points but still believe that much of the fat acceptance movement is blinkered and tries to glamorise being seriously overweight - whilst I can see the value in promoting self esteem, 'big is beautiful' can also send out the wrong message that it's ok to be morbidly obese. I also don't accept that a substantial proportion of overweight people can't lose weight for medical reasons. Whilst diabetes, hypothyroidism and PCOS are the main culprits here and I have personal experience of these, the fact is that most obese people don't eat healthily or exercise sufficiently. I have a lovely sister-in-law who is a size 30 and has had hundreds of pounds worth of tests to try and determine why she just can't lose weight having 'tried all measures'. All of them have come up negative and the fact that she regularly chews through a couple of pizzas, a whole cheescake and a tub of Haagen Dazs in a single evening and takes hardly any exercise seems to have been conveniently forgotten. I accept that being skinny doesn't mean you're necessarily fit or eat healthily, but the fact is that carrying a lot of extra weight puts an enormous strain on your body and it's functions and for every 'fit fatty' there are a hundred who are lining themselves up for serious health problems, even if it's only arthritis! I know from personal experience that losing a substantial amount of weight is phenomenally hard and it's so so easy to fool yourself about what you eat. I'm not advocating that fat people be treated with less respect than a slimmer person, we should all be treated with respect whatever or whoever we are. My concern is that the BBW movement is a double -edged sword and perhaps we should be more pro-active in promoting good health and less active is saying being morbidly obese is a good thing.
Mizz_lee	posted 12/1/07 10:59 PM     Rachel t, im a fit and healthy size 20-22, I eat around 1500 cals a day and do between 8000-10000 steps a day, beside being over weight I have NO health problems what so ever, im healthier than some of my skinny mates. The whole point of sites like this is to help people like us to feel accepted and not like we are freaks of nature, I do agree promoting being unhealthy is wrong but promoting being beautiful/handsome and confident is right regardless of size or shape. When I was a teenager I tried losing weight and it was bloody hard, I was teased everyday which left me with no confidence and I started to binge eat. Now my weight is coming off slowly and healthily I just want to say that the success to losing weight is self love, when someone truly learns to love themselves that’s when they can successfully lose weight and sites like this help people gain confidence and if they decide to lose weight then good luck to them. For my final word I just have to say try promoting fat acceptance because if everyone start banging on about all fat people are unhealthy then its just going to lead to another reason to treat us larger folk as third class citizens which is the worst way to promote a healthy lifestyle. Work on the inside if you want to change the outside.
Rachel T	posted 12/3/07 10:21 AM     Mizz-lee, It's great that you're so healthy and I agree that to lose weight successfully, you need to learn to love yourself and have the right mental attitude. But most people don't have your sensible approach to losing weight and basically, don't lose weight at all. And as for working within, the problem is that most obese people don't accept they have a problem and therefore, don't want to hear that long term obesity will almost certainly shorten their lifespan and reduce their quality of life. For every BBW/BHM in these communities who's saying I'm happy to be fat, there are dozens who clearly aren't happy - just read some of the posts on this site. Now whilst I freely admit that losing weight isn't the magic key to happiness, it is a simple fact that saying to someone, hey it's ok to be morbidly obese, in fact let's promote it as a good thing, is no long term solution. And would all those 'happy to be fat' people still feel that way if there was a magic solution whereby you could lose weight effortlessly? It's not a case of marginalising or not respecting bigger people - I'm one of them! I just think that the BBW/BHM community should be as proactive in encouraging sensible weight loss on health grounds as they are in banging the 'fat is good' drum. I feel that it's just as damaging to do that as the pro-ana sites are in encouraging anorexics to get even thinner.
Mizz_lee	posted 12/3/07 9:33 PM     Fat acceptance is completely different to pro-ana, pro-ana is about educating people how to starve themselves and brainwashes people into thinking an eating disorder is ok, fat acceptance is just about equal rights for us bigger people, its basically to make us feel apart of society, and we deserve to be treated as humans like anyone else. Ever since I became interested in the whole BBW/BHM thing I have never once seen or heard anyone encouraging people to be unhealthy and brainwash them into becoming obese, as I say it again its all about helping people to love there skin and feel confident in who they are. Another thing I must add as im in a stressy mood (not directed at you Rachel T). This is just to prove that we are treated like we are worthless, if there was a young girl who starve themselves they would get all the help in the world, but if there was a young girl with a serious eating addiction they would get a Dr going on about eat this eat that, do this do that, they never want to find out what caused this problem. I believe if there was more fat acceptance in this country people trying to lose weight would get the professional help they need, not let the problem get so bad and let the person become house bound living off benefits.
Cassie	posted 12/4/07 9:57 AM     Sorry but I have to agree with Rachel T. Whilst there are elements of the fat acceptance movement that promote equal rights, there is also an awful lot of the fact is good and desirable. And I don't think Rachel is advocating that fat people be treated less favourably, just that there should be more emphasis on losing weight for health reasons which can't be a bad thing.
Rachel T	posted 12/4/07 10:07 AM     Sorry Mizzy, but there isn't a great deal of difference between pro-ana and pro-fat. I've done a lot of research as part of my work as a nutritionist and there is plenty of support out there for compulsive/binge eaters; part of the problem is that when doctors or other medical people try to tackle obese people about their problem, the defensive barriers go up in most cases. Nobody likes to be told they're overweight and many people just get huffy with the doctor for mentioning it. The point I have tried to make all along is that I'm not saying that fat acceptance is bad, just that it should concentrate more on helping people to reduce sensibly to a healthy weight rather than glamorising the 'beauty of fat'. I'm not saying that fat people can't be beautiful, just that most of the fat acceptance movement encourages people to think that obesity is good and that's a tragedy for all concerned.
Katy	posted 12/7/07 5:11 PM       I have read your posts Rachel, and the others. I think that really you have to give credit to people for not all "kidding themselves", like you say you did, and for not all "chewing" their way through pizzas and tubs of ice cream each night. We KNOW about health, we know about arthritis,we know about type II diabetes, heart disease. We are bombarded by the media about the obesity "epidemic" in the UK. We can go to a thousand different websites to read that stuff and get diet and exercise advice. A bbw site is somewhere that we can escape from the non stop negativity shoved in our faces about being fat, some of which is valid, some of which is scare mongering. It's not about glorifying or praising fat. Again, give us credit for being intelligent. It's about being amongst people who *shock horror* might actually like fat people, accept us for what and who we are without lecturing us on our inevitable slide towards an early grave. There ARE people who enjoy being fat, and people who prefer themselves fat, rather than thin and there are people who are attracted to fat people. It's life. And we can relax, enjoy and socialise in a place like this, without being pelted by wannabe Gillian McKeiths. We KNOW.
Rachel T	posted 12/10/07 12:23 AM     it's your funeral Katy, ..... literally!
Jo	posted 12/11/07 8:05 PM       Interesting debate going on here. Before I continue I would like to introduce myself. I am Jo who runs Big People UK which is the UK's leading size acceptance. ‘Fat acceptance’ is NOT about ‘praising obesity or glamorising obesity’ it about accepting a person for the size they are. It is about stopping the abuse and discrimination they occur on a daily basis from many different corners of society. It is also about raising awareness of way to make positive changes, if a person so wishes to. Most people are aware of the possible medical conditions they may encounter if they are fat. However, recent research shows that being fit is more important then losing weight. Even though there is a possible chance of developing diabetes 2, hypotension, cancer and other ‘fat related’ diseases, one must also remember thin people also have this diseases as well. I congratulate you on your weight reduction. However, without sounding rude, you come across with the same attitude of an ex-smoker would. I would at this point like to reflect on part of what you said “increased risk of serious health problems not to mention the emotional ones”. The emotional problems that a fat person usually has are low self esteem, and low confidence. Why would that be? Usually it is because they encounter the crap that society throws at them on a daily basis saying they are unworthy of happiness and just because they are fat they are ugly, stupid, asexual, dirty, etc etc the list goes on. Now when you’re faced with that daily no wonder a person has emotional problems. However, if a person did not have to face that daily they would be far happier and enjoy their basic human rights. I am a fat woman, I have the right to lead a happy and fulfilling life the way I see fit. I do not let others tell me what size I should be. No one has that right. I do not have the right to tell you how to lead your life. As a fat/size activist I fight to stop society making others feels so bad about themselves and to say: Accept the way you are NOW • Get good healthy eating habits • Take regular exercise, walking is a good one • Work towards better fitness • Do not expect weight loss but health gain • Most importantly, ignore the negative stuff and concentrate on the positives. P.S. Have a happy life Rachel T because I am Big People UK www.ukbigpeople.co.uk http://www.ukbigpeople.co.uk
Ellie	posted 12/12/07 9:55 AM     Fat activist?? Please give me a break. What Rachel says is right, someone dares to suggest that being fat is unhealthy and you have a go at her. I'll be there aren't many fat people who wouldn't jump at the chance to be slimmer - and I mean slimmer rather than skinny - if there was an easy way to do it that didn't involve dieting. I am a size 28 and I have no problems with self-esteem but I would love to be slimmer because being fat affects every aspect of your daily life from restricting your clothes shopping to just feeling ungainly. And I don't want to put my health at risk. Yes you can be fat and fittish and there are plenty of unhealthy skinny people around but the basic premise that Rachel is saying is that being obese is not good for you. Apart from the tiny minority of people who are fat through medical problems, most of us are fat because we eat too much, me included. Whilst I agree that nobody should be ridiculed because of their weight, I think that the fat acceptance movement couldn't do with a shake up too - sometimes what you need is someone to take a hard line and tell you the truth that by being overweight you are voluntarily putting yourself at risk of serious health problems that affect your quality of life and can kill you. I'm trying to eat sensibly and exercise to lose weight which is all that Rachel T is advocating and I say good for her. I'd rather listen to someone like her who has been big and decided to do something about it. Instead of getting all defensive abotu it perhaps we should just think about what Rachel is saying - or is it just a case of the truth hurts?
Rachel	posted 12/12/07 10:08 AM     Thank you for your comments Jo, but as Ellie pointed out I am not saying that there shouldn't be a fat acceptance movement just that it should make more effort to emphasise healthy eating and fitness and the positive benefits that come from this, which quite frankly, none of them do, including your own site. There's a lot about accepting yourself and being accepted by others which is certainly worthwhile but I just don't think it should be about acceptance but also changing the fundamentals. Yes people have the right to be the size they wish, but let's be honest, most people aren't fat because they want to be.
Mizz_lee	posted 12/12/07 9:40 PM     Hey Ellie, good luck on your weight loss, im trying to do the same and as the winter days are getting colder I am getting a strong urge to binge, if you have any good tips please share. For Rachel, I actually think if you feel strongly enough about people having a healthy lifestyle then do something about it, if you have successfully lost weight I for one would love to hear it, start a page for people who wants the healthier lifestyle and if people want to talk to you setup an email account, even though I don’t agree with some of your comments I do think you have a good point. As for fat acceptance I am a 1000000% agreeing with Katy, im big and always will be, most of my life I have had fat jokes thrown at me and sites like these have helped me to feel normal and these past couple of months I have started to gain confidence and for the first time I have looked in the mirror and said I am bloody hot, and guess what I am a beautiful, sexy, curvaceous, buxom brunette with gorgeous eyes and a great smile, if it wasn’t for Pro fat sites like this I would never ever say that about myself. P.s I was not showing off there lol.
Jo	posted 12/12/07 10:41 PM       Thank you for your comments Rachel. I am a bit confused in your comments in respect to Big People UK not advocating healthier lifestyles. Please look closely to what I have written above and also on the site. I myself altered the way I eat over the past 2 years and have lost 4 1/2 stone. I must stress this is not through dieting but by eating more. For many years I skipped breakfast, since starting eating breakfast I have lost weight. I have always eaten a fairly healthy diet so I have not changed my content. I also exercise regulary. Elle I was NOT having a go at Rachel, mearly pointing out the size acceptance is NOT about glamorising being fat, but of giving support and breaking down the discrimination and much much more. http://www.ukbigpeople.co.uk
Abby	posted 5/3/08 1:41 PM       I've dealt with being 6ft 1" and overweight all of my life, what makes it more of an issue is that I have sisters that are thin and gorgeous and a Mother who is very sensible and even at the age of 67 still looks like she is on a catwalk! There is not a day that goes by where I do not wish that I was thin and there is not a day that I have not thought and tried dieting. I have been to the doctor's to see if I could get assistance to help me loose that weight, but the Doctor wants to see will-power but neglects to realise that after 29 yrs of constant struggle I have very little left to give towards the cause, my brain tells me one thing, my body does another. I admit I have an eating disorder, the worst kind, the kind that instead of gaining sympathy and therefore realistic help, results in insults and snubs by a society that judge everything on looks. I have not had a proper relationship before and in many respects have taken second best when it comes to men. I still live at home with my parents and rely heavily upon my close relationship with them as I have designed myself to a life where I realise I will not have a family of my own and these day I do stick my head in the sand. But really what I want is a family and a life, whether I am big or small, but realistic thinking is something I am good at and Men are very good at wanting sex from anyone but committing to a fat chick, no way! I try not to go out as I feel that everyone stares at me and makes fun, and most of the time I try not to have any relationships as I always feel like men dont want to be seen with me in public! I am very paranoid as a result to not only my familiy's critical opinions but also society as a whole. But the funniest thing with the insecurities and the lack of self confidence, I actually hold down a demanding job where I interact with new people and my team is totally male orientated. I have lots of friends and come across to everyone that I am someone with a great sense of worth and happiness. I feel my next step should be to speak to someone, but I have before and it has never resulted in any resolution. I question my sanity sometimes. I find it very difficult to relate my feelings to anyone as I am not looking for the sympathy vote on the way I feel, but an understanding of why I judge myself as the lowest of the low and not a real human with equal rights because I'm fat? I find this site really contradictive of the way I feel, I cannot believe that I am the only one who feels disgusted with their bodies? Am I an isolated case? how the hell do you begin to accept being overweight? I am my own worse critic, It is something I have to live with all the time. so sod the health implications they are not my first priority, my mental wellfare is and I do not see anyone looking onto this, when they preach on this site.
Mizz_Lee	posted 5/11/08 10:05 PM     I know how you feel Abby, all through my teens I hated myself to the point I would make myself sick, starve myself, even self harm. To be honest, I don’t know how my confidence started to grow, it just did, it was like something snapped in my head telling me im not a freak, and I am a BBW and a proud one. Supersizedsexy on Youtube helped me a lot to change my way of thinking about myself and other big people, you should really check it out. Personally I think you need a social life, dress up, do your hair and put a bit of lippy on and hit the town, I bet there will be men chasing you. Look at BBW models, admire there bodies, and then say to yourself I am one of those women, because you are sweetie.
Jon	posted 5/12/08 9:13 AM       Hi everyone, As someone who finds large women very attractive I admit that it is difficult to be evenhanded about the issue of fat acceptance. On tne one hand I can't get away from the fact that I find fat women to be beautiful and erotic but the other hand I do worry about health issues. I'd hate myself if I thought that I was doing anything to encourage or to cause ill health to another person but I know one really heavywieght woman who is fit and into outddor activities. I'm married to her. I think it must depend on the person and that women who feel unwell due to their size should take action but those who are confortable with their bodies should not be made to feel as if there is something wrong with them simply because they don't fit the image promoted by the media. Most men I know fantasize about big beautiful women, although not all will admit it straightaway. In the end I think fat acceptance is a personal issue and the woman should decide what is best for her. Jon
Rachel	posted 7/16/08 6:38 PM       This is a fascinating debate. Rachel T, if you'd like to could you email me at features@racheldobson.co.uk to discuss this further? I'm a feature writer for women's mags... Thanks! Rachel

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