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| Author | Topic: Scent Work in Personal/Family Protection |
| Thad Stacy |
posted 4/3/06 4:39 AM
I have a subject which I would love some feedback. Should scent work be evaluated in Personal/Family Protection dogs? When I train a Family Protection dog, I typically train the dog to do a "track to recover" regimen to help parents find their kids when they wander off from a campsite or backyard. In the Personal Protection arena, I sometimes train the dog in a gunpowder passive alert scenario to alert the handler of the presence of firearms on a stranger. I also train personal protection dogs to do a building search to secure a home or office before the person or family enters. So it seems that there are some practical personal protection applications which require a proficiency in scent and particulate work. So, should a dogs ability to do scent work be a division of K9 ProSport? I am not suggesting that it should be required, but should there exist a separate evaluative test to determine a dogs scent proficiency? http://www.prodogtrainers.org |
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Butch Cappel (Moderator) |
posted 4/3/06 12:30 AM
This is one of the things Ken Humphries and I talked about adding to K9PS as an additional title (not required for PP cert) many years ago. I too would like some feedback as I am sure Ken would. http://www.k-9kountry.nu |
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Terry Byrne (Moderator) |
posted 4/4/06 7:22 PM
I would love to see something like this as a seperate title or certificate!! I've done a little tracking work with my kids as the "subjects", but nowhere near what I've done in bitework. Sure might come in handy if one of my kids ever got lost! |
| Kenneth Humphrey |
posted 4/4/06 8:00 PM
Should scent work be evaluated in Personal/Family Protection dogs? Absolutely, I think scent work should be a very important part of PP/ Family protection training. I personally think building searches should be included in all PP/Family protection training. I was called out about three months ago to search for an elderly man who wondered off in the middle of the night during freezing weather with only his night clothing on. If the families GSD had been trained they could have found their father a lot quicker with a lot less trauma. It turned out well with the father only getting a little frost bite. Now this brings up something else, do you train search and bark indication or search and bite? When doing a household search do you want your pp dog to bark and hold or bite? I have my own personnel thoughts about this but I will wait and see what everyone else’s opinion is. |
| Kenneth Humphrey |
posted 4/4/06 8:03 PM
Should scent work be evaluated in Personal/Family Protection dogs? Absolutely, I think scent work should be a very important part of PP/ Family protection training. I personally think building searches should be included in all PP/Family protection training. I was called out about three months ago to search for an elderly man who wondered off in the middle of the night during freezing weather with only his night clothing on. If the families GSD had been trained they could have found their father a lot quicker with a lot less trauma. It turned out well with the father only getting a little frost bite. Now this brings up something else, do you train search and bark indication or search and bite? When doing a household search do you want your pp dog to bark and hold or bite? I have my own personnel thoughts about this but I will wait and see what everyone else’s opinion is. |
| K.H |
posted 4/4/06 8:04 PM
OOPs sorry about the double post |
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Terry Byrne (Moderator) |
posted 4/4/06 8:19 PM
Bite. Bite-bite-bite-bite-bite. Bitey bite. I call him "bitey". This may differ state to state, I don't know, but FL law is clear when it comes to 2 things that apply. 1) If a dog bites a person over the age of 8 in the commission of a crime, they have no civil recourse. 2) If a dog bites a person who is unlawfully on your property, as long as the property is properly secured (the house is automatic here) and they are over the 8, there is no civil recourse for them either. So, I figure it is safer for my dog to bite, I don't want him getting clobbered or shot while in the bark and hold, and although I might go in after him, my wife will not, so to have him alone in there bouncing and barking..... I don't need to hear him barking to tell me there is someone in there if the intruder is screaming like a little schoolgirl because my dog has sunk a bunch of teeth into the intuders tasty parts. |
| Thad Stacy |
posted 4/6/06 1:56 AM
Great responses. Thanks all. I train my dogs to search to recover from a scent trail...and on command. In building search scenarios, it is a different command and in that case the dog generally conducts his search using aerial scent detection and the response at the end is always a bite. Bitey, bite, bite. I agree with terry about the bark and hold vs. the bite. This has been a hotly debated issue in police service dogs. Departments contend that the bark and hold represents a lesser degree of liability. I think it is absurd for the reasons Terry cited and many more. But on a track scenario, the alert response is an active nark with no aggression. http://www.prodogtrainers.org |
| Thad Stacy |
posted 4/6/06 2:27 AM
BTW, There is a very good study done on the bite vs. hold concept at the K9 ProSport Network website (www.k9prosportnetwork.com) under "Downloads". It si a PDF file and it is fairly large...but well worth it. http://www.prodogtrainers.org |
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Terry Byrne (Moderator) |
posted 4/6/06 3:09 AM
About ten years ago or so, there was a women in MN whos DOberman got shot in a bark and hold. She sent the dog at a a guy who threatened to kill her if she didnt give him the money in the cash drawer (her videostore). The perp froze in fear, the dog went into a bark and hold, and he reached his hand into his pocket verrrrrrry slowly, shooting the dog with a gun housed within. Anyway, thats the way I remember it. |
| Kathy Brothers |
posted 4/11/06 4:39 PM
I think offering an additional title to those interested in scent work would be the best solution. Personally, I could care less about it. I don't think it is necessary for a personal protection dog. I'm not searching for the bad guys. The last thing I want is a physical confrontation. I do want control over my dog when he is in drive- which is good during all emergencies. I also want the bad guy to decide that there is an easier target by appearance alone. This is why I have american bulldogs. Most strangers cross the street when they see them coming, even when I say they're friendly. |
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Butch Cappel (Moderator) |
posted 4/12/06 10:49 AM
Good stuff folks, Thanks for your thoughts on this. Several years ago when we discussed this one thought was a basic building search. With a minimum sized building and a minimum number of rooms. There would be a minimum square footage as well. This would be timed and the "bark" or "bite" would be optional. Several trials have had building searches as tehir surprise exercise in the past so this is not a hard one for us to put together. You might also think of a trailing or tracking scenario if the host has the room, but keep both optional and use a timed score system. As always it is up to you guys to tell us what you want. I am sure Ken will lend his expertise to it and the directors are aways willing to help, so let them know what you think. http://www.k-9kountry.nu |
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