Author	Topic:   any Other *Somatic Narcissists? What does it take to change?
h	posted 5/7/07 1:52 AM
Lightworker	posted 5/7/07 4:22 PM     To change from somatic narcissism means to stop using sex and/or drugs as a means of escaping getting in touch with your feelings/memories that you are suppressing. It's not rocket science really. There is a website I've posted a link to before that would be of great help here. It has a section for sex-addicts too. http://rational.org/faq.html That is, if you really want to stop tweaking sexually and otherwise. I think really, it's about making a decision to want to live. Addictions of any kind to activities or substances that can kill (Hepatitis, AIDS) is just an actual form of slow suicide. It sounds simplistic and even a little silly, but take a walk, go outside and just spend an hour watching bees buzzing around or close your eyes and just listen to sounds...only sounds..that has a way of reawakening the urge to carry on. It taps into another part of the brain that isn't interested in using/acting out. Find quiet time to be alone with your thoughts and forgive yourself. It's like a metaphysical "death" of sorts where you can lay the old life you had to rest and begin, like an infant, on shakey new (but fuller) life. There is a purpose for your being here. And regardless of whether or not you can believe that is not important. You MUST believe that, rather than feeling like you have a choice whether to believe it or not. I deal every day with an illness, off and on it relapses and I am wracked with pain, disorientation and fatigue. Yet every day I wake up groggy and stiff, I drink a pint of water first thing (I highly recommend this for anyone detoxing or just in general) and get up to feed the livestock. By the time I'm done with this simple activity..communing with the goats...the chickens...etc. I feel ready to see what the day holds. Every day is a trip..if you stop and think about it. There are funny miracles everywhere you look. But you can't see them with your mind closed..it hast to be open. OK, lecture's over for the day.
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/7/07 6:50 PM     "somatic narcissist"? That's a rather Vakninian term. You won't find that term in the professional field of psychology. If you read enough to discover that term, then you have some motivation. Do yourself a favor and read some works by people whose Doctorate is actually in the field. I recommend the following: The Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders - James F. Masterson, MD Humanizing the Narcissistic Style - Stephen M. Johnson I even enjoyed Narcissism - Denial of the True Self, by Alexander Lowen There's also a newer work out from someone at Harvard. I'll try to dig out the name later. happy reading.
Gattaca (Lana)	posted 5/8/07 6:24 AM     If you believe you have a sex addiction, try Sex Addicts Anonymous?
Lightworker	posted 5/8/07 3:05 PM     heh, here's the problem with Sex Addicts Anonymous: they're all addicted to what each other has to offer. In other words, it would be like a heroin addict attending a meeting where there was a bunch of heroin there, though just behind glass cases sitting all around him in a circle...talking (tittilatingly) about the various colors, tastes and allures of their various types of heroin. I imagine that those strong in the program could resist...but those first-timers would sink like rocks. At the Rational Recovery website I know a somatic narcissist or two. I think the term applies..cerebral's don't understand. And somatics don't understand cerebrals. It's because each fundamentally rejects the attributes of the other and sees their own manner of suppressing emotion as superior. From my readings, this is what I gather. And from my experience with both cerebrals and somatics...it plugs right in to what I've observed. For instance, one of the somatic NPDs I know endlessly berates people who spend time thinking about their lives. She touts "freedom" of expression in the physical sense. She downs whole half-gallons of ice cream, calls her bloated body "phat" and paints out that condition as "sexy" "either your into phat or your not"..those types of catch phrases. She pursues sex with anything that will sleep with her. Lately she's having sex with a boy whom she started relations with when he was younger than 13 by parading around him naked when he would come to visit her son. My mother is a cerebral NPD. She utterly denounces anything sexual whatsoever. Once I found a book that didn't even have anything to do with sex, but had innuendo woven through it just as most books do to sell. In her handwriting in the margins she had written notes about how "disgusting" or "inappropriate" these different harmless comments were. She touts her intellectual prowess to anyone who will listen; meanwhile fails in debate over nearly any subject and uses stubbornness, and meted subtle overt violence to replace actual knowledge and quell her "opponents" into submitting to her "superior viewpoint". I know one NPD who has a severed personality to such a degree that he flip flops from one to the other...seemingly with little knowledge that the two exist within him. One minute he's berating sexual activity of any kind, even curling his lip in obvious disgust. The next minute he's sleeping with three women in a given week and telling anyone that objects that they're "a prude" "too much in their head" "not letting go and living enough".. Actually, I think that both types exist within each NPD and that one is dominant and the other subdominant, to varying degrees with each person. It's their interplay which lends some insight into what is going on in the mind. It seems that NPDs are engaged in truncation; and since the intellectual mind is in a constant battle with the physical drives anyway, in everyone, and this interplay leads people to discover themselves..their true feelings...NPDs seal off and comparmentalize these two dragons in hopes to keep that conflict from happening. Hoping against hopes that if they wholly reject one or the other (which of course is impossible), then they'll never have to look inside and see what is exposed as a result?? Bear with me here. I observe things and just spew them out for consideration. Here's a comment that applies from the rational recovery website: "It matters not how substances such as alcohol, cocaine, heroin, and marijuana get mixed in with the midbrain's real survival needs. Chemically dependent people feel willing do most anything to continue the use of that substance -- even if it means the loss of everything else that is important. Addicted people wish this was not so. The Beast of Booze, or the Beast of Buzz, is ruthless in getting what it wants." "Your Beast is grateful for the recovery group movement. If you don't go to meetings and get a sponsor and do moral inventories and share and make amends and turn your entire life over to the endless process of recovery and keep coming back, you will drink! "WHOOPIE!" says the Beast. If you are powerless, then it can be your higher power one-day-at-a-time for the rest of your life. It likes the disease idea, in which having a drink is called "having a relapse." It likes to have a place to mingle with other Beasts. It feels safe where right and wrong are replaced by addictive disease, and where commitment to permanent abstinence is a symptom of that same disease. It notices that few who attend meetings stay sober for very long, and gladly accepts that relapse is a normal part of recovery. Aside It wants you to think your addiction is a mystery, a disease, a symptom of maladjustment, a spiritual deficiency, or anything but what it is: The ultimate self-indulgence. http://www.rational.org/html_bullets/Bullet15.html
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/8/07 4:47 PM     >>>She touts her intellectual prowess to anyone who will listen; meanwhile fails in debate over nearly any subject and uses stubbornness, and meted subtle overt violence to replace actual knowledge and quell her "opponents" into submitting to her "superior viewpoint".<<<< OMG! I just realized.. I'm Lightworker's Mom ! LOL! Although I would ask you to clarify what "subtle overt" means.. isn't that like "big little"? People have always complained that I interact in an 'intimidating' fashion. That may be my version. But back to somatic/cerebral - if an NPDer flips back and forth, maybe we should invent a new term for that expression of narcissism called 'versatile'...
Lightworker	posted 5/8/07 5:35 PM     Yeah, or "compartmentalized" may be more accurate. I think most of us are aware when we slip from cerebral to somatic impulses. Like a bookworm could say, "gee that chick is making me horny". Or back:, "honey, I'm not in the mood tonight, I've got a big exam tomorrow." But the NPD switches off the conscious awareness part like you would switch off a light. Back and forth, back and forth. And I think this switch off would make me feel like my life was out of control. Because now and then, like some NPDs have said here, they have moments of clarity, of awareness of it all. And those are harrowing moments. Probably much in the way that if you ignored paying your mortgage for a year...putting it off endlessly...then getting a foreclosure statement and suddenly realizing you had to move..the confusion...the feelings of betrayal...the uncanny ability to disassociate cause from effect...to foist the blame off on an outside source..these are all the NPD traits. I'm at a loss to explain how to undo this fear of facing self, other than just to practice accountability, followed by self-forgiveness AND NEVER TO PRACTICE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER: EVER. Or disaster will happen. ********** "big little"..hmmm. I'm not always the best at finding the words to describe what I mean. It's like the hostility is palpable, just under the surface of what the cerebral NPD is trying to portray: calm, reasonable intellectualism. ie: they cannot hide the hostility completely and become outright demanding that you agree with them (implied: or else). Not sure how you manifest, but with mom "or else" = eventual actual full-blown tantrums, face slapping, pulling hair, pinching...and if further cornered (defied via kindergarten reason or better) bouts of up to several hours pouting in her room and crying. Later to emerge as if nothing happened at all (and you'd better not bring it up again: or else...repeat ad naseum). Oh what fun it was..*sigh*
Gattaca (Lana)	posted 5/8/07 5:42 PM     i agree completely on SA, actually...A diagnosed ASPD friend of mine is very active in AA, but he went to an SA meeting years ago only once. His issue was that there were some amazingly hot women there and so he went home and never came back because "it was like shooting fish in a barrel"...In fact, a few of them called him afterwards and asked him why he hadnt been back. His response was "Because i dont want to talk to you, i want to f**k you" i have trouble accepting the Somatic VS Cerebral catagories. Most of the NPDers and ASPDers i've known are highly intelligent, well read and "use big words" (LOL) while at the same time...for lack of a better term, these people are perverts. They really are. i'm including myself in both. i have certian weaknesses, and drugs and alcohol arent what i'm talking about...Its not *tooo* bad...i was married for 4 years and it was the first relationship i ever had where i didnt cheat (if you dont count cybersex, heh) and then i was celibate for a year after we split up (i was 3 weeks pregnant when i left, so thats part of it, but still..there were no appealing prospects anyways) and now my plan is to try that previously unappealing concept of having sex with only one person at a time. For awhile. Can't tell what the future will hold. i've rarely met an NPDer who was EXCLUSIVELY Cerebral or Somatic, or even leaned significantly heavier in either direction. The exceptions might be my ex husband and my father. My father is a diagnosed NPD. Highly Cerebral, a workaholic who has been involved in so many different things over the years....He created and published his own sucessful magazine, ran advertising campagins for several major hotel chains, published a series of maps, he is a graphologist (handwriting analysis), a professional hypnotist and he used to give seminars on those things, plus he also gave seminars on NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) the list goes on.....Yet he has been married 4 times. He has a knack for choosing psychotic BPD women...and he tells me EVERYTHING. By "EVERYTHING" i mean things you really dont want to hear from your Dad. Like one of the major problems with his 3rd wife (besides the fact that she was a paranoid control freak who screamed a lot and hit him and kicked him and smashed things) was that SHE wanted sex several times a week and HE only wanted it once a month at most. i'm disgusted to say that my ex husband and i had a similar issue. Once a month was fine with him, and if i tried to initiate any more then that, i'd be rejected. We slept in separate rooms at his insistence for over 3 years. Weirdly, it turns out my father and his current wife are sleeping in separate rooms as well. PS. PT!! you wrote "People have always complained that I interact in an 'intimidating' fashion." i just had this conversation a few weeks ago...complaining to a male friend that i have had problems with men lying to me in the past...about stupid things, like the kind of things i like, suddenly the other person loves it too...until a few weeks or a few months later they backpeddle and i find out they were just saying that because they thought it was what i want to hear. His response was that i would be intimidating to a lot of guys, so they make up things to impress me. i ask "How am i intimidating??" and he says "You are very straightforward and a lot of people can't handle that" ...so that was new to me anyways..i am *not* intimidating! lol...maybe...i dont think...
Gattaca (Lana)	posted 5/8/07 5:48 PM     Lightworker, your mom sounds like my mom. Only my mom is a diagnosed BPD. And a sex addict, former drug addict and a pretty severe shopping addict. When i was a kid, she used to make me get the mail as soon as i got off the bus and hide the credit card statements from her husband, plus she hides, hordes and stockpiles much of the things she buys so nobody will find them and confront her on the fact that shes a shopping addict and severely in debt.
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/8/07 6:30 PM     Wow. I must be versatile. I'm feeling the sudden urge to look up the local chapter of SA. Hey Gat - My profile name on AFF is the same as here.. (just kidding). But to get back to H's original post - IMO, it doesn't really matter how your narcissism expresses itself. I personally think cognitive behavioral therapy would be productive. Not all sex addicts are narcissists, and I haven't met an NPDer yet who was comfortable in a group therapy setting - too equalizing to be comfortable. Not a lot of people can afford therapy, though, so if group is all you can do, and you can stomach it, it's still worth it.
Lightworker	posted 5/8/07 8:26 PM     I think it's a mistake to use the word "versatile". It attaches a label of an attribute to something (compartmentalized) that is a curse. Something that is causing a severe dysfunction and is causing, ultimately, very painful experiences. No, not all sex-addicts are NPD. I think maybe my words were mistaken. My impression is not that NPDers are "dumb" or "ignorant", rather they choose a behavior affect that ignores that other people have intellect at least equal to theirs. So in doing so, they mistakenly assume that they can snow people when, like at times everyone has, they are incorrect about something. We learn from our mistakes. Everyone does. But if you never "make mistakes", you will never gain a new perspective. So you are actively hamstringing yourself in learning. And over an amount of time that will certainly put you behind your peers...not that the original potential is defective. For instance, my mom. She has a degree in nutrition from the 1950s. For that time, she learned her stuff and learned it well...because (in her mind) her professors were her semi-equal. But since then she stubbornly insists on that rhetoric which is vastly outdated. HUGE insights have been made since then in what is "bad" for you and what is "good" for you and they're still changing every day. But mom insists that her knowledge is superior (after all, it HAS to be!) so she learns nothing new. And as the years go by her lectures on nutrition, which she does as often as she can, become more and more embarassing to hear. Now when she starts up with strangers..a family member will find a pause to steer the conversation in another direction just to save face. There's nothing wrong with her mind or its ability to learn. There is however a willful blocade to further enrichment.
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/8/07 10:07 PM     Quote Lightworker >>>>>I think it's a mistake to use the word "versatile". It attaches a label of an attribute to something (compartmentalized) that is a curse.<<<<< OK - so let's say that I agree with you. How is the word 'versatile' any different than 'somatic' or 'cerebral' in that sense?
Lightworker	posted 5/9/07 1:04 AM     "OK - so let's say that I agree with you. How is the word 'versatile' any different than 'somatic' or 'cerebral' in that sense?"~ Papertiger ******* 'versatile' is a word I would use to describe someone who is healty. Talking about somatic or cerbral indicates a compartmentalization, which if severe enough, could be very detrimental. It's interesting, your choice of words here..."let's say I agree with you". It allows you to not agree with me, but have it appear as if you do. This reminds me of another NPD I knew who totally screwed me over on a deal we had. His comment, upon being caught, was (after much time trying to convince me it was my fault lol) was "let's say that I was sorry". Not, "I am sorry", but instead reserving the option to also not be sorry, in addition to talking about his own self in third person. From reading about NPD, this is a common thing. It truly is a very insidious illness. Even down to the subtlety of semantics..and evasion tactic. I said it before and I think I'm going to keep it as my buzzphrase here: Accountability plus self forgiveness...neither one without the other. NPD is accountable, accepts accountability, forgives him/herself, then the world can also forgive them and we all move forward as a whole.
Gattaca (Lana)	posted 5/9/07 1:22 AM     Maybe forgiveness from the world is not my first priority. Or even on the list.
Lightworker	posted 5/9/07 2:53 AM     Yeah, I can understand that. From what I hear, most NPDs start out life so mistreated that forgivness from the world may seem like a joke...like, "what, you expect me to court forgiveness from an environment that mentally raped me?!" But, not everyone and everything in the world contributed to the NPD disorder. I myself am at a point where, mishandled by NPD after NPD and just life circumstances in general, I'm struggling daily to see that not everyone is harmful, not everything is bad or to be distrusted.. It's a long struggle. Each day I just try to take one little thing to notice and be thankful for. The more you feel like a part of a good thing, the more it matters that it likes you too.
Gattaca (Lana)	posted 5/9/07 3:44 AM     "I'm struggling daily to see that not everyone is harmful, not everything is bad or to be distrusted.." -------------------------------------- ^ You pretty much described my life there. Just because i've been diagnosed with NPD, in addition to PTSD, GAD, Avoidant PD and god knows what else doesnt mean i owe the world an apology. NPD is not an "illness"...it is a coping mechinism that one develops to deal with existing in a very unhealthy environment. Technically, PDs are not classified as mental illnesses. i dont see why it matters that a word doesnt stand out as having a negative meaning? Is the point to make someone feel even worse about themselves for coming from a fucked up background they had no choice but to endure in the first place?
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/9/07 3:50 PM     Quote Lightworker >>>>>>>>This reminds me of another NPD I knew who totally screwed me over on a deal we had. His comment, upon being caught, was (after much time trying to convince me it was my fault lol) was "let's say that I was sorry".<<<<<<<<< This is an interesting choice of words here "...reminds me of".. It allows you to infer that I'm like the evasive NPD you knew, without directly calling me evasive. So for clarification, are you saying I'm being evasive, or not? I only ask in the interest of the 'accountability' to which you refer. But before we degenerate into a flame war via negative mindreading, I would like to establish some common ground and some clarification: In the thread, somatic and cerebral expressions of narcissism were discussed. You went on to discuss a third type of NPDer that flip flopped back and forth. I coined the term 'versatile' to describe the flip-flopper. At this point, the term 'versatile' was a third term to describe an expression of narcissism, just like somatic or cerebral, only both. You go on to say that compartmentalized might be a better term, and Gattaca adds further information to support this "cross-over" expression of narcissism, stating that she is not familiar with any NPDers who lean more in one direction than the other. So help me out here. You say "it's a mistake to use the word "versatile". It attaches a label of an attribute to something (compartmentalized) that is a curse." and I'm thinking to myself "aren't 'somatic' and 'cerebral' terms that also attach a label to an attribute?". So whether we are using the term 'versatile', or even 'compartmentalized', why is it OK to attach the label of somatic and cerebral, but not OK to attach the label of 'versatile'? Perhaps I misunderstood something along the way. It wouldn't be the first time, but when I said "Let's say that I agree with you", that was nothing more than polite deference to you while seeking clarification, while allowing me the room to change my mind if further clarification changed my understanding of the discussion. I was not being evasive, but polite. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Lightworker	posted 5/9/07 4:41 PM     No, the key to understanding how "compartmentalized" is more accurate than "versatile" is that compartmentalized describes how with NPDers and other personality disorders (thanks for clarifying that Lana) seem to be unaware of the other compartment whilst in its opposite. One compartment sealed from another's view, in any given moment. Versatile suggests a wilfull control and acknowledgement of both somatic and cerebral spheres and CONSCIOUS decision-making connected with being in predominantly one or the other mode. My research into NPD and experience with them shows a drastic and UNCONSCIOUS flip-flopping or strict adherance to one or the other. "i dont see why it matters that a word doesnt stand out as having a negative meaning? Is the point to make someone feel even worse about themselves for coming from a fucked up background they had no choice but to endure in the first place~ Lana" No, the point is that NPDs often gloss over their faults. Stark awareness of the gravity (without judgements) of their condition is the key to understanding the mechanics of what's going on with the disorder. Of course the danger then would be crashing and coming down too hard on yourself too. That's why I adopted the phrase, "accountability AND self-forgiveness. Never one without the other." Is it becoming clearer exactly how this interplay works to foster healing in NPD? Accountability undoes the the lid to the vault. Self-forgiveness allows purging of repressed toxic emotions (toxic to the NPD and others)without becoming overwhelmed by the magnitude when they hit. Of course, these are just my opinions too. And to borrow a much used phrase from 12-step. "you can take them or leave them". lol No flame wars PT. If it came to that I'd just leave without a backwards glance. That's part of MY therapy.
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/10/07 4:34 AM     OK, Lightworker - I think I see what you are saying. I also see what you are not saying. You have not acknowledged that the "reminds me" remark was uncalled for. Where's that accountability? I'm still intrigued by Gat's observation >>"i've rarely met an NPDer who was EXCLUSIVELY Cerebral or Somatic, or even leaned significantly heavier in either direction."<< I completely agree with Gat here. I feel I've always been like this. Pursuing everything simultaneously and vigorously. And look at the practical benefit to the narcissist in that: it gives you fallback positions! If you have a bad hair day, you can focus on how smart you are. If you get plunked down in a meeting with a bunch of theoretical physicists, you can feel good about how much better you look than a room full of pocket protectors. I sought superiority in ALL of it's forms.. intellectually, physically, financially, and power. But let's exclude money and power, which are external. What about emotional and spiritual? I think achieving true superiority in these two areas is mutually exclusive with the disorder. It wasn't until my diagnosis that I had to acknowledge that I was inferior emotionally. I then harnessed my desire to be better than everyone else emotionally to help myself heal - thus losing my desire to be superior.. to a certain degree. But let's get back to Gat's 'unified' narcissists. Can we label them that? Is Lightworker asserting that this is a less severe manifestation of NPD - one that's closer to a 'healthy state' - and therefor doesn't deserve it's own independent label as an attribute like 'somatic' or 'cerebral'? Somehow, when I look back at my 'unified' approach to narcissistic behavior, 'healthy' is not the term that comes to mind.. If we accept the predominance of unifieds, one could argue (Gats point earlier), that the separation of somatic and cerebral is irrelevant. Anecdotally, the people that I have met who displayed a predominance of 'somatic' behaviors, seemed more Histrionic to me. But let's take this further while still assuming the construct of cerebral vs somatic. What happens to a 'cerebral' that's not born with an IQ north of 120?? Life experience is certainly not going to support a concept of intellectual superiority. Same is true for a 'somatic' that's born ugly by anyone's standard. What happens to these people? Do they live their lives as EXCEPTIONALLY frustrated narcissists? Or is it impossible for the disorder to form the variant without environmental support? Meaning every cerebral has a high IQ and every somatic is a hottie and every unified is both intelligent and attractive. Does anyone have any real life experience with a stupid cerebral or an ugly somatic??
Gattaca (Lana)	posted 5/10/07 6:28 AM     OK....so here is my own story RE: Cerebral vs, Somatic. When i was young, i was indeed born ugly. i weighed 4 lbs, i was sickly and scrawny and such. In fact, my mother's first words apon seeing me were "Oh, but shes so ugly! She looks like ET!" and then she burst into tears. i grew up being told i was ugly and stupid. Ugly i was, stupid i was not. i went through pubery extremely early, at age 9. i used to get hassled for my physical appearence, in part since i was the only kid in school who had C cup boobs and bad acne by age 10, and who was noticably overweight and then obese from 12-18. i was the short, fat, lumpy girl that nobody wanted. People were disgusted by me. i even overheard a male friend tell another guy that he liked me very much, but would never "go out" with me because i was fat. People made negative comments, insults and suggestions to me about my physical appearence every day. i was invisible. i didnt matter. i was also highly intelligent. i've been in "therapy" extensively since i was 3 years old. Every move i made was held under a microscope and overanalyzed to the point that i was more like a walking case study then a person. This included several professionally administred IQ tests. My IQ is in the mid 130's. This is something i grew up knowing, and it was offically confirmed on three different occasions. i'm not alone in this, my brother and both my parents have IQs that all tested above 130. ---------------------------------------- Lightworker wrote: "My impression is not that NPDers are "dumb" or "ignorant", rather they choose a behavior affect that ignores that other people have intellect at least equal to theirs." ---------------------------------------- Well, the fact of the matter is, not many people have an intellect equal to mine. While i was growing up, i read many, many books. i researched things. i was intelligent i knew, even if i was nothing else. My ugliness bothered me, i was aware of it, but as far as i knew, i was helpless to do anything to solve it. -------------------------------------- One of my previous labels was bipolar disorder, now aknowleged as a misdiagnosis. When i was 18, i went off all the perscription drugs they had me on cold turkey, and suddenly i lost a SHITLOAD of weight in a very short period of time, due to the harsh withdrawl effects making me physically ill and causing me to completely lose my appitite. In fact, i lost 80 lbs in less then 10 months. Suddenly, the whole world changed. All of a sudden, i was considered attractive. For the first time in my life, other people found me physically appealing instead of physically repulsive. It was mindblowing. Perfect strangers suddenly started giving me preferential treatment, treating me like a supermodel.i was approached by men. People checked me out everywhere i went. It was scary and overwelming. i didnt know how to cope with all of this sudden positive attention based on my body because i had previously been invisible at best, an object of scorn and disgust at worst. It made me angry. Furious, actually....it proved what i had always suspected, that all that mattered to the world was that i was pretty to look at. That i had the right curves in the right places, concave rather then convex. Not what was inside, not my mind. But god, was it ever addictive. It was better then any drug. Being beautiful brings liberation and power. It brings people who think they "love" you even if you havent spoken more then a few superficial words to them. It makes you superior. It makes others envy you. Its completely intoxicating. i used to hate my reflection in the mirror, all of a sudden i couldnt stop staring at my own reflection, lost in it for hours at a time. i became so obsessed with cultivating and preserving physical perfection that i developed clinical anorexia. Once the withdrawl effects wore off, i was hungry again...and chose not to eat. Rather to be in constant pain and lightheaded and weak and frail and unable to think as sharply as i once did...just to stay beautiful. Just to prevent myself from having to re-live the world through an ugly person's eyes. Physical perfection became my only goal. --------------------------------------- That was 6 years ago. i'm now at a more comfortable balance between the two, i am still clinically underweight, but i no longer qualify as clinically anorexic. i've relaxed that a lot. i still read a lot, i still study, i still think about other things besides how flat my stomach is or is not today and Gee, would i sure like to fuck in the next 5 minutes. i am both. i have a very high sex drive, but i'm not consumed by it to the point where i can't take care of the rest of my shit. In the past few months, i've had plenty of options that were in some cases quite appealing, but i've turned them down after deciding that these people are not the best people for me to be screwing right now. Like PT said, fallback positions. OK, so i'm not the thinnest person in the room, well at least i'm fucking sharp. Or maybe the guy i'm talking to has a masters degree or a PhD, and all i have is a highschool diploma. Oh well, at least i can tell he thinks i'm hot. It may not be "healthy" but it is what it is.
Lightworker	posted 5/10/07 4:15 PM     Well I'm certainly learning a lot being here; that's for sure. It's a good thing. PT wrote: "You have not acknowledged that the "reminds me" remark was uncalled for." No, it was called for. The remark you made "Let's say I agree with you" struck me right in the midsection, so I had to comment on it. That's how I ride. It was identical, with the same sensation that I experience with an NPD boyfriend before. He said,"Let's say I am sorry." Maybe you meant it in a different context; and in that regard I apologize. But I needed to point out how I've seen NPDs using nuances of semantics in language to escape accountability. That's the thrust of my bringing it up. This is great. Good discussions going on here. It's nice to see.
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/10/07 5:03 PM     OK, Lightworker. I accept that. I'm sorry to hear your experience was so painful that my words struck you that way. Gat's weight loss history is VERY interesting as it relates to the question I was asking earlier regarding environmental support and whether various expressions of narcissism can develop without it. On the other hand, it could also be considered normal. Example: I've had numerous friends get breast augmentations. I warn them all before they do it that they will get attention that will make them feel more powerful than they are accustomed, and to keep it under control. Warning them never works.. LOL! The power of appearance, and the power of attention - it's a fact of life. It's easy to understand how they get misused, for predatory purposes or because of being just plain disordered.
Gattaca	posted 5/10/07 6:27 PM     LOL, PT...i now have this mental image of predatory breasts...
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/10/07 6:53 PM     No surprise there, Gat! BTW - where do you envision the teeth are? LOL! But seriously, I found the name of the book I was talking about earlier: "Identifying and Understanding the Narcissistic Personality" the author is an associate clinical professor of psychology, Harvard Medical School. oxford press. 2005. My therapist has it. I will borrow it, read it, and give you guys a review. I'll make a prediction and bet that 'unified', 'somatic', and 'cerebral' are not any of the type names used. LOL! But my next session isn't for another two weeks, so don't hold your breath.
Lightworker	posted 5/11/07 4:26 PM     I just reread your post again Lana. I was wondering if the addiction to power might be at the root of it all? Because way back when, powerlessness to affect one's surroundings and people in it might have been so overwhelming that NPD is a active subconscious compensation for it? Something like, "I'll show that friggin' world...I'll get my power back and run the show (keep bad things from happening to me against my will and well-being)"? Maybe this is what leads to thinking of other people as objects..other people are just seen as threats or assets to The New World Order of the NPD? In the case of the NPD that was doted over, or groomed for NPD, it isn't necessarily a pleasant experience either. In my mother's case, she was not allowed her full range of emotions or choices for herself. Grandad actively created an environment of covert hostility for her where it became clear that her wants and needs were NEVER to be taken into account. This could be as psychologically devastating to the developing ego without a hand being raised nor any overt sign of hostility to keep my mother "in line" with my Grandad's NPD. Perhaps if a young NPD child saw flying kites, for example, as a means of gaining power over his/her environment, he/she would then devote enormous amounts of energy to hording the best kites, berating other kite flyers in order to appear superior (and therefore in control) and would spend hour upon hour touching and retouching the fine details of his/her kite to make sure it was the finest in the land...and need to go out as many times a day as he/she could just to display his/her kite for all to see and be in awe of?? This is really good. This honesty can only lead to healing.
Paper_Tiger	posted 5/30/07 9:48 PM     my therapist lent the book to an associate. I will order one online. will advise.
Tiger66	posted 8/5/07 6:28 PM     I am an N.And also diagnosed with PTSD. I will be completely truthful.And hope it wont be used against me in court. I will try to be as calm and objective as I can,As Ive been crying my eyes out for 3 days. Because upon My wife's return she told me I was an N.6 weeks or so ago, about a week ago I decided to see if there was any truth to it. So I phoned my psychologist and she confirmed my worst fears.I had been in therapy for 6 months. When I was told this I just wanted to die right there. I even bought enough pills to kill an elephant.But that would be the cowards way out. So ive been crying my eyes out since. Overwhelming shame and guilt.I feel this way because nothing can ever undo what I have done. There is no amount apologising or anything I can do to reverse the past. I feel I should be hanged, The simple fact is I dont know what I should be doing. There seems to be 2 sides,The victims who want to lynch N's(My wife and her family).And the victims who believe N's should be treated with compassion. NPD is a coping mechinism that one develops to deal with existing in a very unhealthy environment(Mine was childhood and I will explain).Is the point to make someone feel even worse about themselves for coming from a fucked up background they had no choice but to endure in the first place?This explains why.But it doesnt make up for it. My therapist said she hadnt told me that I was an N,She didnt want to label me. Because of the effect it would have. During my time in therapy we dealt with the present and she didnt have the opportunity to work on my past .I resisted,Because the truth was way too painfil to admit too. She explained that I should be hypnotised. so where to begin. Married 15 yrs. My wife left a year ago. She returned breifly after 1 year. A totally selfless act on her behalf. Upon her return she told me she had a nervous breakdown. While I was in bed she tried to kill me by hitting me over the head with a heavy glass paperweight my head was cut open.And I deserved it.Shame she missed. Currently in the middle of a vey bitter divorce. My childhood was extremely abusive,In secondry school I was beaten up almost daily by the other kids,and I dont mean the odd slap,This is well documented,But nothing was ever done.This went on for about 6 years. Because of my behaviour,during the marriage my wife reacted by. I used to ask my wife if we could attend relate etc.she always refused ,If I asked if we we could talk about our problems her response was very belittleing "are you a f***** psychcharisist" Firstly My wife would Insult my looks ,"your fat f***** face" etc. and then she would justify it by saying she didnt mean it, she was angry. never would I dream of insulting a womans looks.Intelligance etc. I am currently unable to eat a thing. Because of her nervous breakdown I worry every day. I write to her lawyer to ask how she is all the time,But to punish me he wont respond. I have asked for Conceptual Closure This most common variant involves a frank dissection of the abusive relationship. The parties meet to analyze what went wrong, to allocate blame and guilt, to derive lessons, and to part ways cathartically cleansed. In such an exchange, a compassionate offender (quite the oxymoron, admittedly) offers his prey the chance to rid herself of cumulating resentment. He also disabuses her of the notion that she, in any way, was guilty or responsible for her maltreatment, that it was all her fault, that she deserved to be punished, and that she could have saved the relationship (malignant optimism). With this burden gone, the victim is ready to resume her life and to seek companionship and love elsewhere.
mizbubba	posted 12/7/07 3:03 AM       I think you answered your own question. You realize you have a problem and are seeking ways to deal with it. I would suggest individual therapy and learning about the disorder. I agree somatic narcicisst is a term sam v. coined but I can tell you from experience there are atleast two distint categories(cerebral and somatic). Sex for the narcicisst has little to do with love but it does provide power, control and attention.

Back to Home  | Post New Topic