Author	Topic:   Attn Lightworker
tiger.66	posted 8/14/07 5:06 PM     Hi There. If you are truly interested in learning more we can setup a 1 to 1 so u can learn more.I have been appauled by the devestation caused by npds.Trust me I am curing very quickly.
Lightworker	posted 8/17/07 4:03 PM     I would never set up a one on one with a narcissist. Sorry. They like to isolate their victims and then ruthlessly shred them beyond recognition. Sometimes two or more of them will do this and then argue about who gets the credit! lol Thanks, but no.
Tiger.66	posted 8/19/07 12:23 AM     wow Sorry I made the offer,I am sceptical about your true intentions for being on here.I have read your posts further and I believe your mischevious at best
Lightworker	posted 8/19/07 3:23 PM     Another one on the band wagon eh? Even if a thousand narcissists gather together and decide to concoct reality, makes it no more real than if just one did. You are intitled to your opinion, but my rejection of your offer for a one-on-one does not justify an attempt at character assasination by attempting to assign doubt to someone's veracity. What is being done here amounts to no less than blind prejudice. And no matter how many sock puppets step up to the plate to recreate reality, the truth is my intentions are to see NPD become an illness that can be reversed.
seeker	posted 8/20/07 7:42 PM       Lightworker, do you have a patent on reality? Is your reality "better" or more "real" than others? Up until your most recent post here, I have held judgment about your intentions. Reading this, however, I sense no altruistic intention. How in the world would you be able to see that there is help for those suffering from this disorder when you, yourself, treat these people with such disdain and venom? BTW, there is no "bandwagon." We are all freethinking individuals here. How many people do you intend to insult?
Gattaca	posted 8/21/07 4:12 AM     "And no matter how many sock puppets step up to the plate to recreate reality, the truth is my intentions are to see NPD become an illness that can be reversed." As Tony Brown has proved, the only way to "cure" NPD is with love and acceptance. Not by judging, villianizing or dehumanizing those in pain. i.e- Narcissists themselves. What you are doing would only serve to reinforce the NPD defenses. Its funny you think we are all sockpuppets. Because of course 5 different people (Paper_Tiger, Deanna, Seeker, Tiger66 and myself) couldnt ALL fail to see you as "wise and courageous" ...Not unless we are all evil NPDers that is...Oh wait, some of those listed above are nons! Wow...Go figure.
Lightworker	posted 8/21/07 4:54 PM     OK OK lol. To be fair, "bandwagon" wasn't the proper term. Let's say that narcissists do however have a peculiar set of responsive behaviors to any threat that confronts their narcissism on any level. Here's a quote of one of the symptoms: "2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love Translation: Narcissists cultivate solipsistic or "autistic" fantasies, which is to say that they live in their own little worlds (and react with affront when reality dares to intrude)." From:http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html This compells NPDers to react with affront to other people's definitions of reality. I can respect that NPDers see the world differently. I can appreciate that they don't give a fig about how their actions affect others as long as they are cruising along in relative comfort. I really can. I really can see that there are people who actually believe that their own self is the only self that matters in the entire universe. I have a grip on that POV, really I do. But on the other hand I also see that people who have NPD also suffer at an acute level from this very way of thinking. I can see, and indeed have witnessed them alienate people that are important to them (for whatever reason) and crash headlong into agonizing and lonely crises when those people invariably get sick of being taken for granted or treated like objects with no feelings or perspectives of their own. All I have to do to illustrate this to an NPDer is to say: imagine how it would feel if someone raped you today, or cleaned out your bank account and replied to your cries of mistreatment with "so what? I wanted what I wanted and therefore I took it. What's your damn problem with that?" If you feel that you would be incensed and put off by that kind of treatment..welcome to the human race. EVERYONE deserves to not be treated in this way. And you cannot expect to be the recipient of special treatment if you treat others like crap with zero empathy for how they feel. Think of it as "human law". The law says that if you want to be treated nicely, you treat others nicely. If you want to be utterly alone with nothing but an utterly lonely empty soul that's only function is to gratify itself in the moment..then carry on, carry on. Religion aside, it really is a problem of ethics. It is unethical and ridiculous to expect a plant to grow and give you food if you refuse to water it and give it essential nutrients, light and warmth. Stealing other people's fruits is gonna piss them off and cause you to be lonely..and hungry. The only solution in an NPDs case is to convince them that going through the motions of showering warmth and light on other people will EVENTUALLY result in their getting a reward from it..a "cookie" if you will. Do this enough times and they might come to realize that compassionate behavior towards others might even come with other rewards beyond their eventual gratification... Baby steps though...baby steps..
Deanna_10	posted 8/21/07 6:00 PM     Or is is more that you call anyone who does not submit to your distorted worldview "a Narcissist" and that you are too self absorbed to see anything of them beyond that? D10
Tiger66	posted 8/23/07 1:13 AM     I would have to agree with lightworker. I would also like to ask a few challanging questions. We are all responsible for our actions. Did I hold a gun to your head which allowed me to clean out your bank account.Or indeed rape you. For me to have cleaned out your bank account,I must have been in a relationship with you for some time. Why didnt you leave me before now,surely you must have recognised bad behaviour before now.By accepting my bad behaviour you also condoned it.
Tiger66	posted 8/23/07 1:21 AM     As an Npd ive had to face a few harsh realities. I live in a different country from the 1 I was born in.I used to moan about always having to continue to pay for dinner drinks etc,the first few dates it is ok. But to have to do it all the time. Now I dont moan about it ,I just finish with the girl.If she doesnt respect me enough to pay now and again them im just not interested. Therefore I am taking responsibility as to how I am to be treated.
Tiger66	posted 8/23/07 1:36 AM     My girlfriend has a 11 son ,who on occasion I babysit.He used to always want to watch TV past his bedtime,So 1 night I made him stay up all night until 8am next morning and watch what I wanted to watch with me,He never asked again. Head for thinking feet for dancing
Tiger66	posted 8/23/07 3:38 AM     Yes Lightworker,you are 100% correct. If you can't trust your partner in a relationship not to empty your bank account,Or to use emotional blackmail,or threats,Then who can you trust.You entered into the relationship in good faith.If you are married the N agreed to love ,honour etc. The big downside is firstly it's too late when the damage is done. secondly the Npder will block out the devestation they have caused easily because their defence mechanism which is now finely tuned from years of practice.will allow them to do this.without remorse. I know ,I am 1.And I certainly feel a lot of remorse for my past transgressions.What I can say from my own perspective is that every day I am healing more.I am in a new relationship and have a steady job etc.At first it was very tough.Lying was automatic and every time I lyed or exaggerated .I would retract the statement ant tell the person what I had just said was untrue and here is the real version.Thus embarrasing myself. Unfortunately the Npder will just move on to the next relationship and if there are kids in the new relationship from say a previous marriage, then they will be affected badly. What I do know is that when things are explained in simple terms and most importantly honestly .I tend to agree with what is being said to me. ie.I own my home which is in a very large city,My current partner owns her home out in the country.My partner explained why she would not live in my home.She wanted to be able to walk to the shops without fear of being mugged. and some other reasons. She made a lot of sense and I understood her reasoning.So I let out 2 bedrooms ,Keeping 1 for myself.We spend the week at hers and every 2nd weekend at mine.I respect her opinion very much and we discuss things all the time,and there has never been a bad word between us. It feels like I am growing up and am being dragged kicking and screaming to adulthood ,even though I am 40. For Npders who want to reform there is light at the end of the tunnel.But boy is it tough. God Bless
Tiger66	posted 8/23/07 3:48 AM     Furthermore Lightworker,If you want to be truly happy then you also must let go of any bitterness you feel,Show compassion and understanding,By giving we all feel good.Remember good people sometimes do bad things and Bad people do good deeds.
Lightworker	posted 8/24/07 4:38 PM     I used the bank account thing and the rape scenario as didactic devices, examples to train the NPDers mind around to what it would feel like to be assaulted. They aren't from any personal experiences I've had.
Paper_Tiger	posted 8/25/07 9:11 PM     I have to say I agree with Seeker. There has been a basic conflict presented here. LW has previously characterized her(?) intentions as compassionate, but there is nothing compassionate about the assertion that people afflicted with the disorder are a pack of wolves cornering pray and then fighting over the entrails. It's not the first conflict I have observed. I note that Lightworker at various points on this board described having conducted her(?) own extensive research, as well as seemingly casting aspersions on sv. Yet LW is using terminology like "somatic" and "inverted", which, to the best of my knowledge, are purely vakninian terms and do not exist in the formal field of study. If anyone knows of a professional tome which makes those references, I would like to know. Certainly, discourse contributes to greater understanding, and there is a difference between the discourse of laypeople and that of formally educated and credentialed professionals. It is dangerous when one gets asserted as the other, while at the same time acknowledging that discourse at any level is sometimes productive.
Lightworker	posted 8/26/07 5:42 AM     Sounds like wholesale invalidation to me. Sam Vaknin isn't the antichrist. He has some problems but also insights. That's how we all are. Wolves devouring entrails??? Did you pull that one out of your hat too? lol NPD is an interesting disorder.
Lilah	posted 1/27/08 2:46 PM       "For me to have cleaned out your bank account,I must have been in a relationship with you for some time. Why didnt you leave me before now" For many the devaluation comes out of the blue and they don't know what hit them. The subtle manipulation adds to second guessing. Add not knowing about NPD to the mix, thus thinking one can "work through things", not knowing the partner has an actual personality disorder, then you have one answer for many partners of an N. It's not really that hard to grasp.
Lilah	posted 1/27/08 2:50 PM       "By accepting my bad behaviour you also condoned it." Plenty of partners speak up, that is not condoning, that's a N twisting things around to make things plausible for himself.
ArtGoddess	posted 3/19/08 2:56 PM     This whole thread was rather interesting to read, particularly when some posters seemed so adamant in branding LW as "bitter" and posting with questionable motives. I Survived almost 15 years legally bound to an NPD/borderline-sociopath in a contract of marriage. By the time I was able to get out, I was nearly a shell of a human being and one might consider my posts on other boards to be "bitter" or "vengeful." Quite the contrary, I am interested in seeing Narcissistic Personality Disorder contained, recognized, and addressed. NPD is not an organic condition - it's not the result of something gone horribly haywire in the human physiology. NPD is a CHOICE OF BEHAVIORS that have been learned, over a period of time, to either protect or control - period. That's it, and that's all. NPD cannot be medically treated nor removed surgically. The only way to treat and "cure" NPD is for the Narcissist, themselves, to engage in a courageous and monumental effort to change their views on Life and their choices of behaviors through intensive counseling/therapy. The "cure" requires a complete breakdown of the system of beliefs that the Narcissist holds close and replacing those beliefs with the understanding that they are not the center of the universe and every action that they take will produce healthy results, unhealthy results, or results that are seemingly benign. For people to mistake a survivor's demand for accountability as "bitterness" is just one more attempt at dehumanization.
Lightworker	posted 3/25/08 0:41 AM     Thanks for your thoughts. I don't want to hold anyone's head in the toilet and flush here. The whole reason I read and post at NPD sites is to learn and share my thoughts so that hopefully NPDers can see where non-NPDers are coming from and vice versa. That's why even in the face of insults and the like I reply "NPD is interesting". Because I really do believe in "sticks and stones can break my bones but names (and words) can never hurt me"...especially on the internet. I try to keep things in perspective.
ArtGoddess	posted 3/25/08 9:12 PM     I do agree with the "sticks and stones" comparison, as well as refusing to continue the punishment for NPD - the living conditions are hell enough, I should imagine.

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