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| Author | Topic: Pelagius |
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Pastor Eric (Moderator) |
posted 8/7/07 4:43 PM
Back by popular demand! On page 62 of the Lutheran Handbook, heretics are listed. Oddly in this book they list fairly positive heretics like Joan of Arc and Luther. Yet I do not know why they link Pelagius with them. Pelagian controveries continue even today with the popular notion that humans are basically good and that we can somehow act right without the Holy Spirit's intervention. It is prevelant in church's that celebrate their own goodness, or have codes of conduct for their members. No drinking, no gambling, no sexual impropriety. And then inevitably scandal rears it's head when leader are not pure. I don't think we take seriously enough that we are born of a fallen humanity and we have a sinful nature. We are naturally selfish, naturally concerned about our own, and believe that we know it all. Daily we need to repent to remember that we cannot trust ourselves because of this corruption of nature and must rely on God's grace. Do you see Peagian thought in our church or in the church at large? Where does this heresy live on (as most heresies generally can be found to resurface again and again.) |
| Trish |
posted 8/9/07 5:33 PM
I see it in the recent statement from the Pope that the Catholic faith is the only true faith. I see it in the discussions about the beer tent at the Delta chicken festival. I struggle with seeing it in myself when I judge others and overlook my own faults. The schools are doing it now when you can't do anything to make a child lose their self esteem, everybody wins, everybody passes. |
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Pastor Eric (Moderator) |
posted 8/10/07 11:43 PM
Hmmmmmm, maybe you see it and maybe you don't. An important part of this is that it is heresy, heresy correctly understoond is not false teaching (apostacy) but rather a distortion of the truth. The pope is a good example when he presents something that is nearly correct or well intentioned. For example, a few years back Pope John Paul reissued indulgences. This time they could not be bought with money rather it would be a certificate of God's blessings for acts of charity. Good idea but..... we cannot earn or merit God's love. Thus we see it as heretical. The beer tent is a good example because "good" people wanted to stand up against it. What about standing up against gambling, what about profiteering, what about standing up against the lack of volunteerism or a lack of commitment to community. There heresy is that we can eliminate our sin, or our efforts can some how bring about goodness or order. |
| Trish |
posted 8/13/07 1:25 PM
Guess I'll go back to the first thought I had - When I ask people "if you died tonight, would you be sure you would go to Heaven?" they usually respond with "well, I've tried to be a good person." From the time we were very young to when we die, we fight for our independance "I can do it myself" - it's what tempted Eve in the Garden, "you don't need GOD, you can do it yourself". We are always comparing ourselves to others - "well, at least I'm not as bad as they are". The televangelists do it all the time, if only you sent in enough money, if only you did this or that, you could make yourself a good person in GOD's eyes. |
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Pastor Eric (Moderator) |
posted 8/13/07 3:26 PM
YES! Now we are on the right track. Pelagianism continues to surface in churches because it is a way to motivate people to do the things that churches need done to grow and survive. It is always tempting to say to people that if they serve on a committee or give a gift to the church that their reward will be in heaven. But it isn't true! The "reward" is there either way, because it does not matter what you do, what matters is what Jesus did. "Jews demand signs (works) and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to Jews and Greeks, Christ the power(the do-er) of God and wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weaknewss of God is stronger than man's strength. 1 Corinthians 1:22-25; parenthesis my words. |
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